Episode #8 (Transcription)

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Part two and the conclusion of our message on our nature and the heart condition.
with Martha Kilpatrick with host John Enslow

(J) I believe that the one who is in their heart knows their heart. But the one who would be captured or would capture, they’re not in their heart.  They’re blind to their heart.  They’re choosing to be blind.  They’re choosing not to see, so they have to have that fruit revealed. Do you agree with that?
(M) In some circles of Christian thought the fruit is souls that you bring to salvation. To me fruit is much bigger than that though it includes that. Your fruit is going to be the effect of life or death. Your root is either in life or in death. It’s never in any third alternative. In the last podcast John mentioned something called “The Silver Cord”. It’s hard to put these concepts that we’re talking about into concrete visual pictures. And “The Silver Cord” was a play written in the 1930’s; it’s been apparently revised a bit, but it was made into a movie in 1933, it’s very old. But it is incredible how in that play certain Biblical issues are very clear, that in some cases, in some circles are muddy today. But it’s a picture of the capture of a mother of the hearts of her two sons. And John mentioned part of the story there, but I did want to identify what it is that he was referring to.
(J) Well you know the reason I think that He is speaking through the media, TV, movies, plays, and everything like that; I think the reason is because this is a nebulous kind of thing. This is a thing that could be hidden in the heart, that you don’t really see it, and so He’s bringing it in these visual pictures of these movies and these plays and books and saying let Me show you visually, so that we can connect to it and say, oh there it is.
(M) Well John, I can’t help but think of “Everybody Loves Raymond”, which is supposedly a comedy. It’s not extremely funny to me, because it is a visual picture of a manipulative mother, who claims that all she says and does is good and for the benefit of her children. And her two sons both are intimidated by her, afraid of her, and neither really connect to their wives. The evidences of this capture are so vivid in the story, and I understand that, someone told me that Raymond, the actor himself, says this is his story, and the story of his family. Well in the sit-com there is a vivid picture of what happens to a man who still belongs to his ‘mommy’. Raymond is lazy; he cannot connect in a relationship to his wife or his children. He is consummately selfish and sneaky. Above all, he doesn’t catch on to things and he’s very stupid. Though it’s funny, and it’s typical of American society today, it is really very tragic. Because in one repeated scene, Deborah, the wife of Raymond says, Raymond, would you just call yourself stupid, I’m too tired. But that is what happens to a man; he’s not in possession of his adult, mature, maleness. And this is pretty radical to put it out on a podcast, but this is the picture of a man captured by his mother, and not willing, neither of the sons was willing to stand up to their mother and say no to her.
(J) You know, the one thing that the mother, Marie does, is she entices with food, and if you remember, Joan in her testimony, was talking about being enticed with food, and that was the enticement. The reason I think it’s so funny to our culture is because it is so real.
(M) It’s not hard to understand or relate to the scenario at all. And that whole issue of food, as being part of the capture; Marie is determined that she is the better cook, and she’s always offering food. It’s an element of the principality of Jezebel. And somehow behind it, as I dialoged with Joan and her testimony, behind it is a very terrible, tyrannical, demonic presence.  It is actually a principality that operates there. And it is a control beyond a human ability to control another person. Marie never has a conscience problem; she even interrupts Roberts wedding, and no one stops her. And Raymond’s explanation later was simply a funny way of looking at it. His way of looking at it was to say, edit, you’re history.  In other words, just erase what Marie does. No, there has got to be, when you have a tyrant, there has got to be the courage to stop it, in you.
(J) And in Sydney Howard’s play, “The Silver Cord” it’s considered a comedy, but when I read it, I thought, this isn’t funny at all. It’s more blatant than “Everyone Loves Raymond”; there’s more endearing qualities in the characters in Raymond. In “The Silver Cord” is rather more blatant.  Y ou can see the evil, conniving and the undermining of the manhood, and everything like that. You can see the choice, the blindness you could see.  It’s just real apparent; but it’s supposedly a comedy. It’s considered a comedy, a comedic drama, or whatever.  I‘m just going...oh, this is just not funny at all.
(M) Read that and I can’t conceive of it as a comedy, because there’s nothing funny about it at all.  It’s a tragedy. In 1933 there was a movie made of it, starring Irene Dunn and Joel McRay, and some of the reviews of the movie written in this century say it is a chilling drama. So, this is a prevalent human dilemma.  It’s really not confined to America.  It is the human drama.
(J) The reason why we say it’s a comedy is the same reason that we do sarcasm. How we hit kind of side handed when we’re being affected by something or offended by something; we use sarcasm...ha,ha,ha... and kind of stab sideways, rather than be a front blow. And I think it’s the same kind of thing it’s a comedy, almost like a sarcasm rather than face it head on and say let’s take down this dragon. It’s a sarcastic way of dealing with it, and then we just kind of giggle and snort at it but....
(M) I think one of the ways that humanity deals with what they will not face, is to make it funny. To me comedy can be an escape, a way around the reality. And we know that some of the famous comedians are some of the sickest human beings. I don’t know a whole lot about that, but I know it’s true. And in this case of Raymond, that’s what he did with Marie’s interruption of Roberts wedding. The destruction of the beauty of the occasion for the wife; what Raymond did was make it funny, it’s ok when you can laugh at it. It’s not ok. This is why I think sometimes humor is evil; when it denies reality, and it refuses responsibility, and makes it ok just when you’re able to laugh at it, that dispels the whole evil of it. No, it doesn’t. And the popularity of that sitcom speaks of the fact that we all want to laugh at it rather than have the courage of responsibility to say I am not your baby boy! And Deborah’s conflict always with Raymond is over Marie, and he allows his wife to suffer that endlessly because his loyalty is more to his mother than to his wife. He has not left his father and mother to cleave to his wife.
(J) It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. What it does is, it leaves a nation full of widows and orphans. This is the reality of it, is that you’ve got an army of men out there who are tied to their mother, who won’t leave and cleave, who can’t be father’s. And haven’t we seen that this is the very issue that our nation suffers from.
(M) You know John, you talk about being confronted with what’s in your heart.  The frightening thing about that sitcom is that the whole scenario is fully understood, but nothing’s done about it. There is no confrontation.  There’s no leaving.  There is no crisis.  They never create a crisis with Marie where they leave her.
(J) Well tell us what you saw about the promise of Elijah coming.
(M) We were in intense prayer among our Body, but where the Lord took the issue was to the last verse in Malachi, which is the coming of Elijah. And if I were really honest, I would have to say that I believe the time is short, and that God is rising up to bring the spirit of Elijah. And Elijah is a confronting spirit. Elijah stands for the confrontation of the Jezebel evil. Elijah stands for the courage of naming it and facing it, and the faith to bring it under the judgment of God. “Behold I am going to send you Elijah, the prophet, before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.” And as we’ve developed this, the Lord has brought that verse mightily to me. That’s what we’re doing here in this podcast.  We could call this an Elijah podcast. That this is coming to bring the heart of God in His call to the heart of men. And when men possess their hearts, their hearts will be for their children. And when the fathers hearts are turned first to the children, then the hearts of the children will be turned to the father. And so this breech between father and child is mostly due to the presence of Jezebel, the Jezebel spirit. I am very slow to call it Jezebel, because I wrote a book about it, and I know it well.  I do not want to assume the presence of Jezebel. God has to tell me, but that’s where we’ve ended with this understanding of our prayer ministry right now. It’s really an Elijah call during the last days for me. It’s a wake up call to the men that is so passionate in my heart it could be expressed in a great cry, in a loud cry, to beseech the men to possess their hearts for the sake of the Son of God, and because we will face Him, and some of us sooner than later.
BREAK in message...
(J)We at Shulamite Ministries wish to make available to you a new resource.  It’s the CD series, “Leave Thy Parents.”  These three CD messages have been extracted from “The Good Shepherd Series,” and deal most specifically with the heart that we have been dealing with in this podcast.  If you see in your life these elements of the heart and desire freedom, we ask that you prayerfully consider acquiring these messages.  In them we delve deeper into the issues, reveal God’s solution and walk through prayers.  Gain freedom today and start the journey for regaining your heart for God.
END of break...
(J) Well thank you Martha for displaying your heart and displaying His heart. I just appreciate your being willing to say this. This is something that we obviously see that most will not say; poke fun or laugh at, but won’t say. But I thank you for being willing. And we just thank you for listening to this podcast and we’ll talk to you the next time.